08/25/2009 09:00 AM House EDUCATION

[Contains discussion of HB 206]                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:16:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON, referring  to HB  206-High-School Students  Taking                                                               
Postsecondary Courses [Included in  the committee packets], asked                                                               
for clarification  of the  first paragraph  which stated:   "only                                                               
high school  seniors in their  second semester would  be eligible                                                               
for the free courses."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:19:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  LEDOUX explained  that  high  school students  were                                                               
able to take  courses with college credits, and both  the fee and                                                               
the success  were based  on the  relationship between  the school                                                               
district  and  the  local  college.     He  explained  that  some                                                               
districts were  offering a middle  college degree,  which allowed                                                               
credits toward  an associate degree  while still in  high school.                                                               
He  opined that  many districts  were very  excited to  formalize                                                               
relationships for these  programs.  He shared  that many students                                                               
of these middle college programs  could not afford any tuition or                                                               
fees,  and  that  school  districts would  be  less  inclined  to                                                               
participate if there was a cost.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON pointed  out the  question  of how  to extend  this                                                               
program to students  across the state.  He noted  that there were                                                               
benefits to the  University of Alaska.  He stated  that the House                                                               
Education  Standing  Committee  was  working  to  "activate  more                                                               
education and  more collaboration between the  University and the                                                               
entire school system."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:27:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  noted  that  the  high  school  in  Juneau                                                               
offered an  architectural and  engineering program  which allowed                                                               
students  to  take   courses  for  dual  credit   from  both  the                                                               
University  and  the  high  school.   She  asked  if  the  school                                                               
district reimbursed the University.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX  said that he  was not aware of  the details,                                                               
but affirmed that the programs were very effective.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS  agreed that  this was  a way to  jump start  a college                                                               
career, and possibly graduate from  high school with an Associate                                                               
of  Arts  (AA)  degree.    He reminded  the  committee  that  the                                                               
discussion  was  to  keep  students engaged  in  school,  and  he                                                               
reflected on the HSGQE.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  deliberated  that  the need  was  to  review  both                                                               
curriculum  and  assessment,  as   not  all  the  students  would                                                               
continue  on to  college.   He opined  that it  was necessary  to                                                               
broaden the interest for students.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:31:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX  offered his  belief that students  needed to                                                               
explore their  interests, and  that was  an important  factor for                                                               
students to stay in school.   He surmised that schools were going                                                               
to  have  to   offer  flexibility  for  students   to  engage  in                                                               
apprenticeship,  work   study,  self  exploration,   and  college                                                               
classes.   He opined  that schools with  limited choices  did not                                                               
work, as students  could manage their learning in real  time.  He                                                               
suggested that  the modern high  school student would  master the                                                               
basic  skills  by  the  sophomore   year,  and  would  need  more                                                               
opportunities to  explore their  interests.   He stated  that the                                                               
inflexible  school   would  not  be  successful,   and  that  the                                                               
University provided a great opportunity for all students.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON considered  that to  be a  vision statement  and he                                                               
offered disagreement that rigid  curriculum schools did not still                                                               
exist.  He asked if  correspondence schools had become open ended                                                               
and available to all students.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied  that the University was  a leader in                                                               
developing  distance courses.   He  offered his  belief that  the                                                               
various distance  course offerings had not  been coordinated, had                                                               
different  quality   and  capability,  and  that   not  all  were                                                               
effective.   It  was the  intent  of the  EED to  develop a  high                                                               
quality, statewide,  virtual education system, which  was managed                                                               
and  owned  by  school  districts, and  would  be  a  cooperation                                                               
between  the  University,  the   school  districts,  and  private                                                               
agencies.   He  shared  that there  were a  number  of models  to                                                               
consider which  would allow students to  participate in qualified                                                               
classes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked whether all  school districts would accept the                                                               
course qualifications.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:37:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied  that once the system was  set up, it                                                               
would  be  owned by  all  the  districts.   He  ascertained  that                                                               
districts  could   join,  and  each   would  manage   its  course                                                               
offerings.   He referred to  this as the "anytime,  anywhere, any                                                               
age, anyone system."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:39:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SAICHI OBA, Associate Vice President  for Students, University of                                                               
Alaska,  said that  they were  interested in  an assessment  that                                                               
would  help  students  and families  prepare  for  post-secondary                                                               
course work.   He acknowledged that there was  dual enrollment at                                                               
the University, and  that the most common way was  to enroll as a                                                               
non-degree  seeking  student.    He  explained  that  there  were                                                               
specific programs  for high school students,  which included tech                                                               
prep as a  low cost alternative.  He described  the AHEAD (Alaska                                                               
Higher Education Admission Decision)  program in Fairbanks, which                                                               
was  for students  who had  completed  75 percent  of their  high                                                               
school curriculum, with  a minimum GPA of 3.0.   He described the                                                               
Higher  Education  Opportunity  Act (HEOA)  which  allowed  post-                                                               
secondary  institutions to  formally admit  high school  students                                                               
into a degree program.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:42:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER noted  that Kenai  Peninsula College  had                                                               
mentioned  that should  high school  students be  struggling with                                                               
the college  course work, the parents  had no way of  knowing and                                                               
it could affect graduation from high school.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OBA  replied that he was  aware of the issue.   He emphasized                                                               
that  the communication  needed to  exist between  a high  school                                                               
student  and parents.    He  pointed out  that  each high  school                                                               
district should also be aware of the university program.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  considered  the tendency  toward  five  years  for                                                               
completion  and   graduation  because   of  the  lack   of  class                                                               
requisites.   He  asked if  non-degree  courses affected  college                                                               
graduation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:46:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OBA  explained that the  term non-degree seeking  referred to                                                               
the student  status at  the time  of the course,  and it  did not                                                               
affect the  course work as all  the course work could  be applied                                                               
to a degree program.   He opined that the keys  to the success of                                                               
the  university  and  the  success  of  K-12  were  linked.    He                                                               
expressed support for programs to  help high school students find                                                               
success in post-secondary education.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:49:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS,  in reference to HB  206 - Student Count  [included in                                                               
committee  packets], explained  that  the  current public  school                                                               
funding formula  required one student  count for a 20  day period                                                               
in October.   He  shared that  HB 206  would require  two student                                                               
counts,  and funding  would be  based on  the higher  of the  two                                                               
counts.   He  detailed that  the first  count would  still be  in                                                               
October,  but would  now average  with the  [new] prior  February                                                               
count, and that this average would  be the funding for the school                                                               
year.  He  shared that there had been an  optional February count                                                               
from 1988-1998, which allowed districts  with a student increase,                                                               
to base  their funding  on the  higher average.   He  pointed out                                                               
that  October historically  had the  highest student  count.   He                                                               
suggested the  second count would encourage  district support for                                                               
keeping students in school.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:53:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEANS, in  response  to  Chair Seaton,  agreed  that HB  206                                                               
requested  two 20-day  counts, which  would allow  for comparable                                                               
counting time periods.  He  reminded the committee that the count                                                               
was  based on  enrollment, not  attendance,  so there  was not  a                                                               
penalty if students were absent.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON stated  that it  was undesirable  to have  a system                                                               
which rewarded enrollment and not attendance.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEANS replied  that a  student was  dropped from  enrollment                                                               
after an  absence of 10  consecutive days without  contacting the                                                               
school district.  He reported  that the school districts expected                                                               
parents to set  up a learning schedule for children  who would be                                                               
on any  extended school leave.   He offered his belief  that this                                                               
addressed the enrollment issue.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  agreed  with   a  second  count,  yet  she                                                               
expressed concern for smaller schools.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS  detailed that  the two  counts, February  and October,                                                               
would  be  averaged  during  the calendar  year.    He  explained                                                               
further that  the October and  upcoming February counts  would be                                                               
averaged for the  school year, and then the  higher average would                                                               
be  used.   He expressed  his understanding  for the  concerns of                                                               
Representative Munoz.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  surmised that an  optional count would be  a better                                                               
financial incentive to keep students  in school, as there was not                                                               
a  downside to  student  decrease,  but an  upside  to a  student                                                               
increase.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:00:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ agreed with an optional count.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GARDNER  expressed   support   for  offering   a                                                               
financial incentive  to keep children  in school.   She suggested                                                               
adding a hold harmless clause  that stated the second count would                                                               
not be used to lose funding.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  said that she  could not envision  the EED                                                               
forcing  closure of  a school  during  the middle  of the  school                                                               
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:03:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS,  in response to Representative  Wilson, clarified that                                                               
the EED did not close  schools, that this decision was determined                                                               
by  the local  school  board.   He noted  that  the second  count                                                               
considered  in HB  206 could  affect schools  similar to  Tenakee                                                               
Springs.   In  response  to  a question,  he  clarified that  the                                                               
funding would be based on the  average of the two counts, not the                                                               
higher.  He agreed with the concerns of Representative Munoz.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:07:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON offered an example  of the effects of increasing and                                                               
decreasing student counts, using a two count system.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS  noted that  schools close to  the minimum  ten student                                                               
level did not have a large fluctuation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH asked  how many schools were on  the edge for                                                               
student minimums.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS estimated that there were ten schools statewide.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  offered an example  of the recruitment  of students                                                               
for  a small  school.   He  offered his  belief  that the  second                                                               
student  count was  a  financial incentive  to  keep students  in                                                               
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:11:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE  JONES, Assistant  Superintendent,  Kenai Peninsula  Borough                                                               
School  District, expressed  support for  the funding  plan which                                                               
the legislature  had adopted three  years prior.  He  referred to                                                               
student  count  averaging,  and  noted  that  student  population                                                               
fluctuated during the school year.   He opined that the two count                                                               
system would  result in  less funding  than the  current program.                                                               
He reported that contracts were written  in May, but a school did                                                               
not know its  revenue until October.  He  suggested one financial                                                               
incentive to  be a count  for 170  days from the  previous school                                                               
year.   He opined  that an  October count would  not result  in a                                                               
decrease for funding, but would  allow for a funding increase due                                                               
to enrollment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:16:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER surmised  that  the  proposed bill  would                                                               
allow funding,  at the  very least, for  the prior  year average.                                                               
She  asked  if  a  spring  student  count  was  enough  financial                                                               
incentive to retain students.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JONES, in  response  to  Representative Gardner,  reiterated                                                               
that  school  student  counts  go  down in  the  winter,  and  he                                                               
expressed a concern  that the means to retain  students would not                                                               
justify the financial gain.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  surmised that a  school would not lose  funding for                                                               
its  current school  year,  no matter  what  the February  count;                                                               
however,  a student  increase in  February could  be a  financial                                                               
gain.   He  offered an  example  from the  Alaska Military  Youth                                                               
Academy,  which revised  its program  to ensure  there was  not a                                                               
loss of  student population when  it began the two  count system.                                                               
He asked Mr. Jones for  any incentive suggestions to maintain the                                                               
student count.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:21:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JONES repeated  his  suggestion for  a 170  day  count.   He                                                               
expressed concern  with the February  count occurring  during the                                                               
lowest  student  attendance  period  of  the  school  year.    He                                                               
conveyed that  the Kenai Peninsula  Borough School  District goal                                                               
was  to promote  itself as  the place  of choice,  with the  best                                                               
alternatives.  He  noted that should this second  count have been                                                               
taken during the  prior ten years, his district would  have had a                                                               
financial loss.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked  to clarify that this was  based on enrollment                                                               
and not attendance.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:23:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDENER  asked if  Mr. Jones recommended  a later                                                               
date for a second count.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JONES  relayed that  enrollment  began  to increase  in  the                                                               
spring, with its peak in October.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER reflected  that  the  February count  had                                                               
been selected  as it was  prior to  the variety of  spring school                                                               
breaks which could interfere with the student count.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES suggested that April or May would be a better time.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:24:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  asked  where  all the  students  went  in                                                               
October,  as it  appeared  that all  the schools  had  a drop  in                                                               
student count.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES replied  that every school district  was convinced that                                                               
the new  students were  already funded in  another district.   He                                                               
offered   assurance  that   districts   did   not  stop   student                                                               
encouragement after the October student count.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON opined  that  the district  superintendent                                                               
needed  to prioritize  the maintenance  of student  enrollment so                                                               
that all the  district staff would investigate  every instance of                                                               
a student drop.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES  reported that when  a district  did not get  a request                                                               
from  another district  for a  student  record, it  did not  know                                                               
where to respond.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON reflected on  what happened to the students                                                               
who were no longer enrolled anywhere.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:28:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  noted  that   some  populations,  such  as                                                               
fishing and tourism, were seasonal.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES concurred.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:28:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH  reflected that  for small districts,  it was                                                               
possible for  someone to  go to  the student's  home to  check on                                                               
them, but  in larger  communities there  was often  nothing done.                                                               
He  questioned whether  students could  be missing  in their  own                                                               
communities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON concurred  that some students were  missing from the                                                               
schools, but still  in the community.  He shared  that most state                                                               
agencies  had responded  that  this  was not  its  priority.   He                                                               
reiterated that  the purpose  was to  get students  back in  to a                                                               
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:32:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEANS  relayed that there  were unintended  consequences with                                                               
the  second   student  count  and   gave  an  example   of  early                                                               
graduation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked which month was best for the second count.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCORMICK offered his belief  that after February it was very                                                               
difficult  for  EED to  reconcile  that  much  data in  order  to                                                               
recalibrate the  foundation entitlements  for that  current year.                                                               
He acknowledged  that other  states used the  170 day  prior year                                                               
student count, and that it might achieve the committee goal.